By - -beefy
I’m in the same boat as you as an engineer
Well, do your best to create a position for zero-experience people.
Can’t say I ever really feel very guilty about it.
Based on a lot of my coworkers they don’t either.
To be fair, I don’t think there is anything wrong with going out and honing a skill for years then expecting to be paid for it. So I get more angry with the people that are actively pushing these conditions for some people rather than feeling guilty about what I have.
I worked more today than I did the first four days of the week and I showed up 45 min later and left an hour early to put it in perspective. Meanwhile the entry level sales guys are required to start at 7:45 and work til 5:15
You aren't being paid for what you do, you are being paid for what you know. Also understand that it is most likely MORE expensive to have a consultant come in and work as needed.
Late great David Graeber wrote a book about just this: Bullshit Jobs. Youre totally right
If the amount you are paid was inextricably tied to the amount of value your labor adds to society, why would it be that so many people become fantastically rich by actively making society a worse place to live
At my retail job making $10/hr they snarled at me for being 10 minutes late to a grueling Christmas Eve shift. There were no requests for time off allowed during the holidays and every holiday you were expected to be available
At my office admin job making 40k they gave us the 23rd as a half day and we mostly just answered emails and played dirty Santa. Then we had a 4 day weekend
And how could someone sit on their ass making all their money from interest. What product or service are they providing, what value does that add to society? Nothing, at the end of the day it's someone benefitting from society without working. And they're able to do it because of the wage theft happening in their investments. The rich are thieves and leeches.
The more you get paid, the less work you actually do.
There's no way you work more than the guy/gal in the amazom/walmart warehouse. I took a trade last week while talking to someone and within 10 minutes closed the trade to realize a profit of $1000.00.
Then I thought about all the jobs that I did as a teenager and in my early twenties where it would take atleast 15-20 hours of my time to generate the same $1000.00.
Then in 2021 some 14 year old kid comes along creates and sells NFTs and generates $400,000.00 within months.
This system is very skewed against the 'worker/employee/slave'.
Not everyone who is well off does jack shit, but nobody who is in poverty has the luxury of doing jack shit (except maybe the disabled, addicted or stuck in homelessness)
Nah bro I do jack shit and get paid okay for it. I'll hop to a new job at some point and do even less.
>the work is physically easier
What are you trying to say here, that you have to *focus* more, therefore it's harder? That you have stressful responsibilities? Because it sounds to me like you just admitted you don't work as hard now. You don't have to feel guilty about it, that's how the system is designed.
No he said he works a lot of hours. So the amount of work is the same. Physically he admitted it is less straining. Harder/easier would for his job probably mean he has difficult tasks to do (or not). Something can be hard to do without breaking your back, it doesn't mean that either job is worth more or less just based on that fact.
Oh poor guy. You have to strain your eyes at a computer? Somebody get this guy a fanta! Stat!
I'm a different guy than above: I do research. My job is literally fundamental research in quantum information. It's hard and requires a ton of prior knowledge, loads of paper reading and understanding material typically considered totally opaque by the public.
Accidentally popping the wrong sma cable in the wrong connector can destroy 20 grand of equipment.
Hitting the wrong button can destroy a turbo pump.
Designing new devices is literally inventing a new thing. Figuring out how to measure it, and then taking and analyzing that data takes a ton of thought and work.
It's a question of how you understand the word "hard".
If by "hard" you mean "painful and injurious to the body" then no, by job is not that.
If by "hard" you mean "the average person literally couldn't do my job without 5-10 years of additional education and experience and loads of persistence in getting up to speed, as well as getting a PhD" then yes, my job is hard.
You seem upset. We aren't having an argument.
Ask any well-paid white collar worker or executives in corporate America if they’d agree to work a grueling retail or food service job being humiliated and disrespected with no autonomy or purpose or freedom - if it meant they’d be paid the same wage they’re making now.
Here. Not saying I don’t contribute. I do my job and have a shitload of stress and responsibility. However, I never have to listen to a boss say some bullshit like “show us a little hustle” or get lectured on how much money the company is wasting on toilet paper or coffee.the best part about a bullshit job isn’t the big money IMO, it’s the very small amount of time I have to spend actually talking to a boss.
I say everyone should work retail and customer service at least once in their lives. Would make the world a better place.
TLDR at the bottom. Excuse the typos/grammar, using mobile device. Plus I'm publicly educated in the southern US 😁
Bootstraper here. Grew up poor as dirt in a double wide trailer on a dirt road in South Georgia. No one went to college, we were all poor so we didn't really understand how poor we were. My dad told me college was stupid and I should get a job so I could "buy myself a nice truck" like all my high school buddies. I watched my parents work shit jobs, often multiple at a time, just to provide. I really didn't want to do that, so I decided to hold off on the nice truck buying, and go to school.
Went to a great public school, had a blast, learned so much about life and myself. Wouldn't trade it for the world. But, I also had to grow up much quicker than my peers. I had a federal work study grant because we were low income. It was an easy gig, but max 20 hours a week at minimum wage. So I had to work a second job at a high end golf course mowing greens at 6 am before class then I would come back after class/work study to mow Fairways or wash carts. During the summer, I would work 60 hours a week on a farm near my parents house and drive back to my college town to mow greens/Fairways on the weekend to keep my job. I did ALL of that and still had to take out student loans (insanity).
After graduation, I joined the military and took advantage of the student loan repayment program and GI Bill. Did 5 years, came out debt free, then got my MBA on their dime. I have zero school debt.
Ok, now to the point. I worked MY ASS OFF for everything I have. I have a good job, good income, all of that. But I am also, like 99% of Americans, one bad medical emergency away from losing it all. AND....MOST IMPORTANTLY....I think it is absolute shit that I had to go through all of that just to have a comfortable, upper middle class life. The system is broken and needs to be redefined. I'm on this sub because I'm on your side, I've been in your shoes, and the "barriers to entry" are ridiculous.
Wishing you all the absolute best!!
TLDR: Bootstraps guy who had to claw his way up to the middle class. Doesn't think it should be this damn hard.
Had a nephew quit a job making six figures checking blueprints for zoning violations because it was too boring. Most days he surfed the internet because there was nothing else to do.
Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber is a great book on this.
Exactly! These corporations are dragging in piles and piles of fucking cash and hording it! Assholes! But, it's the miserable, low life "investors" who apparently"demand" this to show value in a company! While good, hardworking ppl struggle. So it comes down to companies treating their employees like crap and their investors like gold. Something is very wrong here and now is the time to let them know, either pay up or shut down! It's gonna be hard to move stuff around without ppl.
I worked in finance for a major listed company and as you can imagine, the CFO has a multi million dollar compensation package of salary, bonuses and stock options. She decided to leave and have a career break so she resigned, I don’t blame her as I would do the same if I had her net worth.
So after she left, we didn’t have a CFO for over 6 months. We got through half year and year end reporting without a CFO. I commented to my manager that clearly we didn’t need a CFO as we were perfectly fine without one, he thought I was joking!
We still don’t have a CFO, we have one due to start in a few months, company is still thriving without one!
Yet without the people at the bottom, who are paid a pittance in comparison, the company would shut down in a week. The C-suite makes millions of dollars and can afford mansions and yachts and things yet the company can go ages without them while the people who actually make money for the company are paid so little they struggle to make ends meet and depend on SNAP and other assistance programs.
If anybody wants to know more about high paying purposeless jobs and why they exist, check out the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.
does it also tell you how to get one? (real question thanks 😎)
Graeber mostly focuses on the cultural harm that these jobs do; people are supposed to find work fulfilling and at least feel like they're doing something that's worthwhile. Instead, these bullshit jobs are just people being paid to do a few hrs of work a week and spend the rest of the time pretending to work and feeling inferior for being useless. If we're not working, we could be doing better things with our time.
Construction/trade work pays very well for what it is. My package was around 55 an hour. I left that to do my own thing and bill it out at 80 an hour and have to turn jobs down. Warehouse work pays like shit though
I’m not suggesting you rip off customers by any means but I believe that means demand is outpacing supply. I’m sure you remember high school economics and what to do here, Mr. $85/hour.
I'm booked into the summer of next year. Unless someones grandma needs something fixed im not taking on anymore work. Spring time I'll see how the market is but it isn't looking good (for homeowners who want anything remodeled) and go from there.
All I have is a BS in computer science. I did a lot of internships in college and I've been working outside of college for almost 2.5 years, and switched jobs a few months ago. My total comp is $146k fully remote from Philadelphia. /r/cscareerquestions is a good resource. Hacker rank helped me get my current job but idk if I'd call that a certification. Hackathons helped me get up to speed and network early on in my career but I'm not sure if those are happening because of covid. If you can contribute/create some open source projects on your GitHub like mobile apps or a website or data analysis from kaggle, that'll help.
Thanks haha mostly luck and my parents helped with college tuition and they put me in a good school district growing up. I'm also privileged in terms of my demographics. It's definitely not a complete meritocracy.
How’s Philly for the startup/tech scene?
Still hoping to find one of these jobs. I’ve seen a lot of people in this subreddit saying they left their shit jobs and found higher paying gigs with far less work. How. What industries? Help a girl out, I’d love to be able to afford groceries :-)
Administration, operations, coordination, project management, project coordinations, sales support, payroll, assistant
Those are the keywords for jobs that pay a LOT BETTER than shitty service jobs and have the same basic entry requirements
Right? I keep being told that I should shoot for these high paying writing jobs: but it’s just not happening.
I nearly got $30/hour as a sort of customer service rep for a weed marketplace and I thought *that* was life changing. (Turns out, *nobody* got hired and I had to give *incredibly* frustrated feedback to a recruiter who was *also* very frustrated as she’d been trying to hire for the role a while and up until the very last interview I was perfect. I was also not the only one this had happened to.) Some of these wages just boggle my mind and that was the one time I came close to what was to me, higher wages. Now, I know that I *can*, I just have no idea where to find them.*
(*honestly I didn’t know the wage for this when I applied and it was sort of one of those days where you’re just slapping through Indeed throwing the resume at anything & everything that *might* fit. I’d gone months without a nibble.)
Sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Applying for fucking everything, not getting a call back for anything and then ones you do get called for, pay SHIT. Or have shit hours among everything else. I’m so over it and I feel like it’s never gonna get better.
Digital marketing and automation, usually starts at 80k +.
Where is the list of these high paying, low input jobbies plz?
I make 122k a year as a sales rep for one hour a day of work.
Smoke and mirrors baby
You're part of the problem. It does none of us any good you looking down from your ivory tower and getting the feels for us serfs. Talk is cheap. Farm your karma elsewhere.
nah, let the people get their the bag.
I got a bs in biology, and lab/natural resources jobs pay below amazon warehouse level and require specific experiences lol.
It isn't their fault to pick a carrier that crucial to let this bitch going. if they leave, they will be replace by the same type of people and as they told us, they do minimal amount of work there.