T O P
WwwWario

ROUND 12 Poll: [https://strawpoll.com/polls/Q0Zp4ELDJZM](https://strawpoll.com/polls/Q0Zp4ELDJZM) ​ Mega Blast is an item I've rarely seen and used myself, but it can carry you through many bosses and rooms (or even entire floors). The charge time means it possibly cannot carry your run alone, but being able to use Mega Satan's own huge Brimstone laser is still a great unlock reward! Round 1: Bag of Crafting Round 2: Void Round 3: Abyss Round 4: Epic Fetus Round 5: Proptosis Round 6: Infestation 2 Round 7: Dr. Fetus Round 8: Maw of the Void Round 9: Pyromaniac Round 10: Ipecac Round 11: Mega Blast


Blustach

This is not a call to remove D6, but we have to realize D6 can't score higher than D-Infinity, which is a straight upgrade whose only 2 flaws are 1) being in a less reachable item pool and 2) that pesky charges bug which should've been patched by now but seems to go under the radar every patch


Darkmega5

Resuming the “crown of light does nothing” bit. I mean where is that supposed damage multiplier? And the crown is blue here, yet it’s grey when I have it? Smh unfinished item code it in edmongus


epicdoge12

I don't get it, whats the gimmick with crown of light? it just seems to be a free 2x damage multiplier. People always act like theres a catch but im not seeing it


GrilledChese44

The catch is the shot speed down


Carlex1818

Appolyon players: "No! Not my precious shot speed ![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|8907)"


GodottheDoggo

skill issue


Eddie_The_White_Bear

funi comment


Saucyboi672

It’s supposed to be blue? Why is mine red?


Darkmega5

Next thing you know somebody is gonna come in saying something preposterous like "my crown is a fucked-up sprite"


beyblade1018

You picked up dark prince's crown


Ena_Ems_17

You have to have full health for it to be active and you lose it when you take damage. Skill issue. Edit: I got the joke...


Darkmega5

wait, those heart-shaped things can be *full?*


SailorsGraves

Wait, you guys are getting hearts?


GodottheDoggo

What hearts? All I have are a bunch of flies


abadredditer

flies? I only have lost hopes and dreams


Professional_Tip_578

Lost enjoyer detected


Sawcaster-Mage

Yeah; that's what the spacebar does.


Delta5583

i love how revelation stays strong even though the counter synergy with charged attacks, flight, soul hearts and and added burst DPS thanks to the holy brim. Can always save a run or just improve the quality of it


GelatinouslyAdequate

~~mfw maw~~


pokemasterfox

At least I don't gotta get in melee range for maw. I can yeet enemies I can't even see with Rev.


SatiristicWretch

yeah but enemies are often trying to get into melee range of you, so you dont even have to work much for maw to do its job as long as you trust its strength (does double damage of rev btw)


wh1tejacket

True but it also gives flight and 2 soul hearts ![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|2357)


-trom

Yeah, flight and health plus a free beam that has full penetraish is too sick


SatiristicWretch

flight is nice i guess sure although on some floors the only thing it avoids is creep - where youre specifically more likely to get rev later than maw because of how angel deal works (+ maw contributes does contribute toward leviathan) ​ and the 2 soul hearts is nice,vhowever you did eneter an angel deal because you skipped a devil room on an earlier floor so you need pure damage to compensate for that, getting health isnt comparatively as useful (kind of why i dislike The Body Prayer Card in angel rooms because red health is most useful as currency anyways)


GelatinouslyAdequate

> The Body Prayer Card in angel rooms Getting either of these is also quite literally the exact same as getting that one itemless angel room w/ eternal hearts.


jjbahomecoming

You mean, the Devil Room with three red chests or two black hearts and an enemy-- or maybe even a single deal where you have to trade a heart container for Black Powder? Dang, I really did miss out on a lot. Maw of the Void does not have the relative safety and range that Revelation does, and takes away heart containers and health from you while simultaneously not halving the price of curse rooms/nullifying spikes and creep for the rest of your run. Sure, it does very good damage, but that's it. It's good, but Revelation is just better.


SatiristicWretch

\>You mean, the Devil Room with three red chests or two black hearts and an enemy-- or maybe even a single deal where you have to trade a heart container for Black Powder? Dang, I really did miss out on a lot. I used to follow the strat of going angel deals on jacob and esau until i kept getting one room item pedestals that contained like, the bible. after a while i started going through devil deals and won my runs much much more because of stuff like cambion conception and satanic bible and lusty blood and etc etc, this can go two ways. \> Sure, it does very good damage, but that's it. if im fighting scourge and hes spewed maggots all over the place, maw helps me clear those maggots without thinking while also doing massive damage to scourge with maw, ending the fight way sooner. the health you spend on maw is outmatched by the health maw saves. (as a personal anecdote ive had eden start with rev and eden start with maw and maw was just way better overall in performance) (and half price curse rooms is ok i guess but if it doing 50 per cent of the damage of maw is justified by that then ventricle razor should be q3 since its free curse rooms)


electropeaisopea

I also use to follow this ideology of "devil deals bad" until I was finally fed up of getting shit like Lazarus' Rags or the Habit on Depths 1, and ever since then I have not regretted my choices, in fact I've tried to go back to doing angel room runs as most characters but when I do I'm just like "Man this is so fucking boring". Genuinely people should stop worshiping angel rooms like they're perfect and are always better than devil deals and just accept that both have their own ups and downs.


SatiristicWretch

i hate how everyone keeps talking about rev giving "safety and range" when the most challenging rooms/bosses in this game are trying to surround you from all directions and trying to get as close to you as possible, how the fuck are you going to charge up your rev beam and have it do anything meaningful while heretic is trying to chain chomp you


YetASecondUser

I mean, to be fair, Revelation DOES give you flight, and the beam is considered spectral (I think), but even then that's not exactly gonna help you in the end-game when pretty much no obstacles EXIST to abuse and everything wants you *extra* dead.


GelatinouslyAdequate

> Dang, I really did miss out on a lot. That's easy to say if you never check the deals in the first place


DaddyCool13

Revelation is an all in one run carrying item. The holy brim can be your only source of dps, with no tear ups or damage ups and it’s still enough to beat the chest or lamb. Probably won’t carry Delirium or Hush on its own but is enough for anything else.


Snailsnip

I wonder if people will get more or less heated in arguments now that pretty much every item that has any downside is gone? Only one left is 20/20, which arguably is pretty manageable. Now it’s just a matter of taste.


GelatinouslyAdequate

There's some people who want to kick out Satanic Bible because they hate devil deals still


Sevatar34

I don't like devil deals Unless I have S Bible. Also pretty sure statistically this is the most game winning item of them all


sussy_man89

I think glitched crown gives more broken runs


Parking-Ad5406

Every time i have a s bible run all i get is brother bobby type shit


pokemasterfox

Uh, Sacred Heart outclasses nearly every single item Sbibble can produce, gives an extra red heart, something that Sbibble can't do, and doesn't lock out angel rooms after. So no.


Sevatar34

I mean that S Bible and Book of Revelations are much more common, often found in libraries. Therefore they win more games than strong angel items.


pokemasterfox

I can think of 3 games Sbibble actively lost me because devil items replaced the boss items...


Sevatar34

Well who knows maybe you would nail it with moms underwear instead of free demon hearts


pokemasterfox

Going back to your previous post (while still disagreeing respectfully)...wouldn't, mathematically, D6 be the real biggest run winner, since Isaac literally starts with it?


SuperMegaDiabetes

By that logic, the poop is the true biggest run winner because 100% of blue baby runs won were started with it. That'd make it actually beat D6 in that regard since not 100% of Isaac runs won were started with it. You'd need to beat mom's heart a few times to unlock blue baby (who doesn't need to unlock poop beforehand), so that he unlocks D6 for Isaac by beating Isaac, which is just as ironic. ~~Fuck it. Dead Bird is the biggest run winner too. All Eve runs won start with it.~~


Sevatar34

It would be for this particular character, yes


GelatinouslyAdequate

>Sacred Heart outclasses This is mostly true, but....SatBib can also get you multiple good items, which are equal or stronger. >gives an extra red heart, something that Sbibble can't do Except Bethany, +1 red heart vs. infinite black hearts, what's better for HP? >doesn't lock out angel rooms after. This is like not buying Goathead in a deal because it locks out angel deals. You can see way more devil deals *and* be able to make the health back. Bonus: sac room + hp generator = angel & devil items


PooPooSmoothies

No i hate it because 1 heart container for cube of meat moments


Steve_En

ooo thats me


GelatinouslyAdequate

Fine so long as you don't give a weird excuse like "SatBib is bad because it doesn't guarantee a good devil item" as if this game isn't based on rng and manipulating it.


Steve_En

gonna be real with you man i just don't like devil items period


Strangegary

Satanic bible is not as good as other Q4 Item IMO


Snailsnip

That’s... pretty much the definition of a matter of taste.


notkylegass_

For some reason I get way more excited seeing 20/20 than I do sacred heart


Snailsnip

Lol, yeah, I actually do too. Getting such a good item out of the treasure room pool feels luckier than the angel room that’s already built to be extra powerful, plus double tears are a really visually impressive effect.


spre11

There's also Tech X left.


Aleatory_Alien

Yeah my vote goes for 20/20. Its good but not as good as the rest of the items here. Not much to say


Periachi

Agreed. It's a good item, but it can't match up with c section, tech x, sacred heart, or brimstone.


Miguling

I don't think Sacred Orb & Glitched Crown are going to be yeeted any time soon. Why settle on having just one t4 item when you can have *all* of them potentially?


RNGesus____

I bet the winner will be one item from the god head- D∞ square


GarfieldFutanari

I don’t vibe with revelation, like yeah it’s good and I like how it’s based off the angel boss attacks but it feels the least special out of the Q4 items


bedpissergaming

switching my vote from stopwatch to the wafer, stopwatch's effect is useful in basically all situations and the wafer really only kicks into action on the 7th/8th floor its good for sacrifice rooms before then but id still prefer anything else currently on this list


Astephen542

Wafer **doubles** your HP in the lategame, though, and is useful for sacrifice rooms even before Womb. You're heavily underrating it; it can save an otherwise-lost run in a way Stopwatch can't.


LaiqTheMaia

Waifer does nothing if you never take a hit 😏


Steve_En

Who cares about how much damage attacks deal if Stop Watch lets you dodge all of them


GelatinouslyAdequate

Stopwatch actively helps prevents damage, Wafer can only reduce it


Frequent_Knowledge65

Clearly we’re not measuring items based on their actual power since we just voted out mega blast


bakuham

Wafer is one of the single best items in the entire game you are trolling


BudAdams88

Yeah. Wafer overrated as fuck. I haven’t played normal mode in years and the half damage has never once saved me a run. Tankier runs, sure. But I’ll always take a tear effect like 20/20 over wafer 400 days out of the year.


Aedaru

I agree, wafer is probably the most underwhelming t4 item left.


scamp41

Yeah I just hate having 24 hit points on end bosses


epicdoge12

u get all marks on tainted lost once and all of a sudden wafer is a bad T4


Aedaru

Idk about you but any run that gets to the difficult ones will usually be pretty strong, and won't have me go through every single heart and some.


Blustach

Floor 1 wafer got me my ace of diamonds/spades unlock (tho for spades i was lucky enough i got the Gluttony heart item in the same floor so I didn't had to take a pickup)


Aedaru

That's fair, but wafer is still an item that loses value the better you get at the game.


IMadeAnAccoutForThat

w*fer 🤮


Foolish_fool55

Day 12 of voting binge eater. Seriously, it's not that good, guys


sushi-_-roll

Binge Eater is amazing, a guaranteed stat up as well as a guaranteed HP up from every item pedestal is insane.


Foolish_fool55

Having too much red health is basically a death sentence to your devil/angel chances tbh (unless you got goat head or eucharist), and if you dare come at me with the "just don't get hit" bullcrap, then why do you even NEED the hp, hmm?


Starler_

trade the hp for goat head ![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|2357)


nightfuryfan

I've been voting for it for ages lol. I find it boring and kinda prefer Void tbh


Frequent_Knowledge65

If you lose with binge eater you should uninstall. It’s not that good. It’s better.


VechaPw

Day 12 of voting glitched crown


a_guy_7155

Glitched crown Is a run winner


Air_42

So is Binge eater


a_guy_7155

Yep,i was replaying to the guy that was trying to kick crown


CryptiCrumpet

As much as I love glitched crown most of the items here are run winners


a_guy_7155

Yeah but glitched crown Is a 7 item choice with every pedestal


CryptiCrumpet

Listen I’m not arguing that glitched crown isn’t good. I’m just saying that “run winner” as a criteria is kinda dumb considering almost everything here is a run winner.


ShillerndeGeister

Never understood why its so popular Always hate seeing it I already hate those items that Give you a big damage boost that goes away after some time, and binge eater is that just worse


Air_42

It's not about temp damage, its about 75% of all items granting you dmg/tears up + some random stat + hp up + temp dmg


Superstinkyfarts

The big damage boost is pretty much irrelevant to the actual item. It's the permanent stat ups that are a big deal.


Frequent_Knowledge65

It gives permanent damage ups. It makes every item have a 3/8th chance of being pentagram.


nozm81

mom's knife is often times not very fun, so thats next out for me


Nothing_Apollyon

i don’t like glitched crown due to the fact I hate waiting for every single item. it gets so tedious, i just stop caring at a certain point


The_Pfaffinator

Glitched crown is a direct upgrade to D6 that is 4 times as strong, removes the downside of possibly rerolling into a worse item, and is always active, never needing to be charged.


Krags

Yes, _but_, it's a giant pain in the ass.


robtape

not if your a timing god


Darkmega5

let's say, hypothetically, I had a skill issue.


UnderBonnieC

6th day of voting stopwatch


Steve_En

Stopwatch the MVP is still alive


Administrative-Suit4

Mom's knife.


cancerfanbase

why is Satanic Bible still exist...


BIG_SMOOOOOOOHKE_PL

you can pretty much take double the amount of devil deals and still end up with 12 hearts.


JustTurtleSoup

Wait are Satanic Bible items without the HP cost? If so this completely changes my opinion on the time.


Cruxin

no? you can just get way more than you need to spend easily


scamp41

They still cost hearts but the item gives you a black heart every 6 rooms


Besiks

Double the amount you say? You mean one more devil option, in cost of free boss room item? I've always seen satanic bible as a worse goat head.


BIG_SMOOOOOOOHKE_PL

when saying "double" I meant for the entire run, not just one floor. ​ and the devil deals can be considered free too since you can easily keep the health maxed out.


GelatinouslyAdequate

Devil pool is better than boss pool for everything except tears, and I guess the occasional luck-up? You can do a full comparison, most of boss pool is HP-ups, tears and small-to-ok DMG-ups. HP is redundant when SatBib is a generator, and devil has better DMGs up, but devil only has 3 or 4 tears ups. But if you need tears, you can also just not use the item until you beat the boss


dontcallitSchnitzel

Yeah fuck that item I rarely take it if I stumble upon it


tesznyeboy

I voted flip, kill me, idc


a_guy_7155

Flip Is D6+ damocles without downsides,wtf


RadicalBeam

If we voted out Ipecac because of the tears down then Poly needs to go soon too.


UnderBonnieC

No, they can't take explosions, it's not about tears


Sausrage

It's funny that Ipecac went first even though it offers utility, splash damage and higher damage than Poly. Imo Poly offers much less than Ipecac, even in term of ls of synergies. Honestly disappointed by that, but this is beyond us. This sub really has something against explosive items for some reason.


Tasty_Tidepod

Wdym Poly clutched my lost run the other day, its just a trade of slower shot speed for high damage


Sausrage

No doubt Poly is a good item, the question is how does it measure against the rest of the 4 quality roster. I covered that before (day 10), compared to the other damage modifiers here, it might be the worst. Again, nothing against the item, it's very strong, but there're just better options.


Periachi

I seriously think that 99% of this sub can't aim with explosives after seeing the t4 thread the last few days.


KillikShrix

r key kinda mid


Mark3698

Mega Blast = tun killer amirite??????????????


-trom

How did mega blast last so long?!


Modesties

Psy Fly or Stopwatch because I’d rather have DPS than defense.


Periachi

Stopwatch I can understand, but Psy Fly? Really..? It's a guaranteed win.


two_loaves04

Either Polyphemus or 20:20 out next imo. Polyphemus is just a better eves mascara


InfinitySlayer8

Without the Shot Speed down or the pseudo piercing


shellythebutler

Poly is the one with the pseudo piercing tho


InfinitySlayer8

Ah sorry that should read : and with pseudo piercing, bad english moment


maomaoshin

20/20 has to go


Rand0mGuyjw

Out of all remaining items (except R Key), The Wafer is the item with the smallest impact on gameplay. Cuts damage in half from Womb and onwards but other than that it doesnt do much. I hardly see it but i pick it up every time. but i want my runs to be better, not easier.


Carlex1818

Sac rooms


Astephen542

Again, why is Stopwatch still here? It's just a speed up and a slow on enemies, which is pretty boring. It's good, but less useful than anything else on the list right now.


Darkraiders

Stop watch is more than just good, it's pretty much a guaranteed win. I would take that over wafer, 20/20, psyfly, satanic book, mom's knife and even Holy mantle (pretty much all items already eliminated too) any days.


InterestingMail8766

“Wafer is boring because it reduces damage “


RoastedBurntCabbage

Bro sacred orb is literally bad.


Infamous5678

are you fucking dumb


RoastedBurntCabbage

It is not BAD, but it is definitely bad compared to other tier 4's IMO, even at quality 2-3 there are a lot of items I just do not like. I also don't think it is good because it can't carry on its own like sacred heart.


Thesunsetreindeer

It’s not bad, it’s just easy mode. It’s boring


BudAdams88

Bye wafer


Exciting_Morning1476

Didn't expect that one, I thought it would be bingeeater or wafer. I dont have mega blast unlocked because fuck J&E but from what I've read about it looks strong af


RoastedBurntCabbage

But 12 room charge though.


Frequent_Knowledge65

It’s not really a 12 room charge. When you use it you can clear at least 6-8 rooms, each of which will charge it.


Carlex1818

Would you day the same thing about mega mush?


RoastedBurntCabbage

Honestly, yeah, I'm more of a passive items are the heart of Isaac kind of guy. D6 is the best.


Carlex1818

Fair enough, I've had many active items that have saved or made my runs insane so I guess I'm more of an active item guy. Explains why I like appolyon to.


RoastedBurntCabbage

I see, I personally think Mega Mush and Mega Blast are definitely good items I would pick up (unless I have spindown dice or the d6 or a really good synergy), but items like sacred heart and revelations can carry runs on their own are almost always better in my opinion. But after considering your perspective I can definitely understand why you like the actives. ![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|8906)


mrseemsgood

Nice


robtape

good now i have no clue


YetASecondUser

Okay, ***THIS*** is a choice I can understand. While far from a bad item, Mega mush essentially does it's job and, in my opinion, better, so if it stayed for a while it'd feel kinda redundant.


pelz_

I'm fine with Mega Blast going, I think it's alright but not one of my favorite items to have, it's just really good in Boss Rush and when you have flight, because dealing with those spike button puzzle rooms while you're using it can be really annoying.


hortu

Finally mega blast is gone! I has been waiting for this too long. For me this item is ultra rare, hard to use, need a lot charges to active and is not as good as it should be. Honestly I would prefer abyss than mega blast. Also it can't be compared to mega mush which is great item for floors cleaning.


dulti

C-section is gonna win.


puptake

Bye bye binge eater! Should have gone a loooong time ago.


actuallyludus

I must be missing something here, why do people rate satanic Bible so much, I hate the fact it changes items to cost hearts


Carlex1818

It turns you into a soul heart basically, and giving you devil items instead of boss items. You can usually afford the item evrey single time and I'm pretty sure blue baby can get cost reduction on certain ones to. It's really good along as you don't get too risky


actuallyludus

That seems pretty good to be fair. I'll have to try it out and maybe even change my vote for the next poll


Frequent_Knowledge65

It’s insanely strong. Sure they cost hearts, but they’re also now from a much better pool (yes, devil pool is better than boss pool) and it gives you health anyways. With battery bum and all the battery items and trinkets, it isn’t hard to get a lot of Hp from it.


actuallyludus

I'm more of a fan of angel meta and have been hitting that more as I like finishing my runs with a mega Stan kill so I've always just ignored it as an option


Suisun_rhythm

I haven’t played in a year is the Magic mushroom yellow now?


Carlex1818

Nah that's mega mush. Imagine mega blast but better


Periachi

Why is moms knife still here?


ZealousidealSyrup412

Mega tears


Oracles_Rose

![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|2357)


InfinitySlayer8

Still voting for 20/20 although Stop Watch or Wafer might follow soon. Still like Stop Watch because it uniquely (boringly) changes the game and Wafer has some of the best synergies with Sharp Plug which I love to bits


The_Pfaffinator

Not in Repentance. Wafer now does nothing with Sharp Plug, as it takes half a heart per bar of charge, instead of dealing a set amount of damage for full charge. Whe Wafer reduces damage TAKEN, Stopwatch reduces the possibility of taking damage at all, and thus is objectively superior.


weberm70

Unless taking damage is unavoidable, ie curse rooms, sacrifice rooms, blood banks, beggars, delirium, etc. wafer enables quite a lot of cheese.


Absolute_bimbo

I’m voting C-Section since it has like a 94% chance of winning and come on, we want the result to be unpredictable here


pokemasterfox

Iunno, R Key, Sacred Heart, Glitched Crown all have legitimate shots here


Darkmega5

Flip two coins: Heads/Heads: Glitched Crown Heads/Tails: C-Section Tails/Heads: R key Tails/Tails: Sacred Heart ​ personally, I think it'll fall out r key being eliminated earliest out of the 4, due to the second run being a bit of a slogfest then glitched crown because there are a decent amount of people on this sub with skill issues then C section because there's probably that one guy who hasn't played since release repentance plus there might be some fire rate down phobia. then sacred heart because that's well established as a godly item.


wstawaj

I wonder what's specjal with cringe eater


a_guy_7155

Mhh yes i wonder what Is special about 1 hp+stat upgrade+One heavy temporal stats upgrade


Accomplished-Eye5463

I hate how the re-rolling items are still in. Best case scenario, the re-rolling items will just re-roll into one of these quality 4 items so when comparing them to other quality four items and saying that the d6 is better makes no sense. Not to mention it is extremely rare to re-roll for a quality 4 item…You people have skill issues![img](emote|t5_2sxpk|4359)


scamp41

No, best case scenario it rerolls into several of these t4 items.


nightfuryfan

Rerolls aren't just good because they can give you good items; they also give bad or lackluster pedestal spawns a chance to improve. And Spindown Dice is always perfectly consistent in its rolls, meaning you can often target specific items that way. And Glitched Crown is straight up OP once you get the timing down lol


Accomplished-Eye5463

This elimination game pins individual items against other SINGULAR items. The d6 has no upsides on its own. That was my main point. If we say the d6 is good because it can reroll into a different item, we should also factor in the synergies for other items.


nightfuryfan

...have you used the D6? Your comment suggests that the D6 itself "rerolls into a different item" when you use it - which is objectively untrue. You use it to reroll *other* pedestals into new items - which is very different - and I don't see how a reusable item that lets you reroll otherwise unwanted pedestals "has no upsides on its own." If you don't like the D6 then that's a completely valid opinion, but your description is just objectively not how the item works, and it isn't really fair to judge it on a false premise.


Accomplished-Eye5463

Lmao no


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a_guy_7155

Ok,now explain how d6>flip


weberm70

D6 is usable on items from chests.


Starler_

So you prefer rerolling item from the chest instead of getting 2 Angel/Devil items?


[deleted]

[удалено]


a_guy_7155

No? Flip Is d6 but you can take both items


[deleted]

[удалено]


weberm70

Also it can just flip between two active items. D6 you can potentially reroll an item twice.


Sporelord1079

Polyphemus. All it is, is DPS up, and it’s DPS is inferior to all other remaining DPS items in this list.


Carlex1818

Even to 20-20?


Sporelord1079

I think 20/20 is still ahead of you consistently land both hits but that’s a good point.


Swagcopter0126

Can we start knocking out the dice? No point in keeping the dice if all the items we use the dice to try to get are here


Kessler-X13

R key is probably going to win


BlearEarth65011

Flip


Hamacek

mega-mush is just mega blast but cooler


TerraCaw

I feel like Crickets head should go, while it is a great item it is a downgrade to another item and it’s relatively boring!


NewtonSteinLoL

Wafer


DomiWasTaken

Revelation or 20/20