Unions oppose O’Toole, some call for members to vote ‘anything but Conservative’
By - TheRedTourist
I'm a unionized worker working at a pulp mill. A lot of the other union guys walk around with PC stickers on their helmet. A few of them openly support trump. I went to university and studied sociology. I've read and continue to read a fair amount of of labour history and labour studies. When ever the situation comes up regarding how much conservatives and (to a lesser extent) liberal governments have hurt the working class and unions directly through legislation and policy, they are just completely unwilling to listen. I really go out of my way to not seem confrontational, accusatory, or pedantic, I honestly just want to help develop some degree of class consciousness and share what little knowledge I've accumulated with fellow workers, but the degree to which the working class has accepted an entirely unnecessary political reality is really discouraging. I am becoming.more involved with our union and really hope to change some people's minds to hopefully make our union stronger.
I've seen lots of my fellow union coworkers support the CPC and other anti-worker parties. Drives me crazy, don't they realize they are voting to restrict the rights of working people?
Many if not most people vote on the basis of their identities above all. As it stands, plenty of rural and blue collar people feel misaligned with left-wing parties on cultural issues and will vote against their interests if it means owning the libs
This is me with my dad, except he was ready to flop onto the PPC bandwagon after hearing that the Conservatives flipped their boat and were in support of Trudeau's changes until I told him that as immigrants-turned-citizens, the PPC goes against literally every interest in our family. Okay, Trudeau sucks, but why not vote for the party lead by the Sikh? I literally live in a riding where NDP has a chance, granted not a great one, but at least some kind of.
A large percentage of Sikh Canadians are Conservative, right?
I think a lot of people don't realize this, or they just associate PC rhetoric with more immediate gains when it comes to "jobs", whether from people thinking PC's are more "friendly" to business from denying things like Climate Change or because of their unwillingness to discuss reforming corporate taxes--something seen amoung many I talk to as a set-in-stone feature of reality that can't be changed despite how damaging and draining it is to our society. I'm positive these views can be challenged in a constructive way that avoids falling into a false dichotomy between simply voting libs or cons, but I think it will take time.
Edit: But yeah lol word, it's really frustrating to encounter so many unionized workers being reserved to vote cons.
Thank you for trying.
Can lead a horse to water something something...
But if the waters on the wrong side of the border isn’t the horse gay?
*Alex Jones intensifies*
It's crazy that alot of those people benefit directly from unionization and openly support politicians or candidates that completely oppose unions. If their pay and benefits and retirement were stripped because of a restructure they would be crying wolf. MOST jobs do not guarantee this. All for reasons "like" the union helps everyone including the bad employees and they can't get over that or those in the union are not conservative enough. Those politicians will not save you. The working class is nothing more than a tool in their game.
He'll still get support from 80% of construction workers I can tell you that much.
This is a real problem in Alberta. If we always vote conservative no matter what, then conservatives literally have no incentive to do anything for Albertans. And liberals also have no incentive to do anything for Albertans cause they’ll never get the vote. We’ve essentially given away our voting power by always voting the same way no matter the performance.
I’m hoping Edmonton will show red, I have no hope for Calgary
Yeah but at least you're owning the libs by destroying yourselves. Take that, people that want to provide basic social services under a functioning government to raise the standard of life for everyone.
Then turn around and blame everything that goes wrong in their lives on the Liberals.
god dammit as an albertan tradesman i know soo many of these guys. kenny gets in and literally takes thier overtime away and they... continue to support the conservatives ..? money out of your pocket. does it get much clearer then that??
Think of all the money medium to large businesses will save! They'll be able to invest that money in... making you work 50% more overtime for the same paycheque. Why work 10 hours for $143 when you can work 11 hours for $143. Or companies will just pocket the payroll savings and it will trickle down later I'm sure.
At least under the Conservatives the money isn't being spent on feeding needy children or paying the salaries of middle class workers like teachers and nurses. Still have to increase the deficit but it's all gotta go to increasing profits for the oil industry.
But corporate tax cuts will put more money in your pocket!
Well put!! Jason Kenny is a dictionary example of that.
This is a definite downside of the "party-system" that has taken over pretty much all of politics. Things keep devolving into teamism by and large and that leaves individual communities to struggling with their own unique issues.
Imagine if communities themselves could function like a union and actually apply some real pressure to these parties. Having these local reps already affiliated with one "team" saddles that community with all the extra baggage that comes along with that party's policy.
What's even worse is when one team operates at a federal level, provides a needed hand out to address something on the community level, and then gets turned down by a provincial level "they're our people first" teamist power-move.
That’s essentially what the Bloc is. The don’t necessarily always want to separate. They just represent Quebec. If the government isn’t being nice to Quebec, they vote for the bloc.
UCP: "I know we managed this poorly, like extremely poorly, but if the Libs/NDP had been in power, just imagine how bad it would have been!"
Alberta: "OMG they are so right! We need to vote for them. Anyone who votes Lib/NDP wants this province/country to fail!"
Alberta politics in a nutshell, and I say that as an Albertan.
Wow, glad at least one of you understands.
If someone works in construction and votes Conservative, it's safe to assume they're a fucking idiot.
Edit: Not saying construction workers are idiots, not at all. However, I **am** saying Conservatives are idiots. It sucks that conservatism (and the extreme proud idiocy that comes with it) tends to be popular among the trades.
I was a teacher who left for the trades. Good money and believe it or not - less stress. People would yell at you and this or that but I knew they were just idiots and I just didn't care.
I put up with all the Trump supporters (even though I'm in the GTA...) and can't tell you how many times I've heard "Trudeau is a pussy". But I just knew they were dipshits and carried on making money.
But covid rolls around and no one cared to wear a mask and no one wanted to get vaccinated. That was the last straw for me. Be an idiot if it doesn't physically affect me but I drew the line at my personal health and just never went back.
There are good guys in the trades and there are some smart guys in the trades but I'm telling you - they are the minority.
Can confirm 100%.
The tradespeople who would howl for blood when a fellow worker is killed through management's negligence are the same ones who think PPE and safety is for pussies.
> Trudeau is a pussy
That's funny, because he has boxed before and could most likely kick their asses.
He beat Patrick brasseau (sp?) despite the guy being much bigger than him.
I don’t like Trudeau (he’s not left enough for me) but I respect him a lot more than any conservative and would rather he be prime minister than any conservative
I'd rather have a rock as a PM than any conservative. They're great at opposing ideas and attacking people, but terrible at doing anything constructive. They're like children. They're just not mature enough to run a country.
>I was a teacher who left for the trades.
What sort of trade did you go for? Thinking of getting into the trades myself, but I don't want to be one of a few thousand jerkoffs applying for the same job in a slow market.
edit: thank you for the replies! I'll double-check what's in demand right now.
Honestly man I haven't kept up with it. I was a drywall taper but they are definitely an ebb and flow trade. Unfortunately I am not quite sure who is doing good right now and who isn't.
Oh geez man sorry to hear that, out of all the trades you picked the absolute worst. All the tradespeople rip on each other, no doubt, electricians make fun of plumbers and vice versa, carpenters hate both, but they all unite in their unrelenting loathing for the drywallers.
Most of the guys in the compulsory skilled trades hate on the guys in the non comp trades. There’s a bit of a superiority thing a lot of us with red seals have unfortunately.
Yea four years of schooling will do that for ya😂😂😂
Not saying drywallers deserve *all* the hate they get, but probably 85% of it.
Stop shitting in bathtubs you filthy fucking animals.
Oh yeah. Very true.
I never understood this thinking.
I always hire contractors that get along because I will bring them all with me to the next job.
But anytime I catch a contractor being a dick to another contractor...I just don't use them again.
I have been a building super for a looooong time and the two things I hate doing more than anything is caulking bathtubs and taping drywall.
2 skills that I just can't get good at.
Taping I am okay at but man,caulking bathtubs and I are like oil and water.
Anything else...no problem.
But after 30 years...you would think I could caulk better.
That's why I just invoice the pros to do it.
I *can* get good at painting and drywall but man do I hate it. Farm it out when I can.
Am electrician, can confirm my deep hatred of drywallers.
Dont forget about painters
Lol that was your first problem right there.
Drywallers are know to be maaaaassive dipshits amongst pretty much all trades. There are some great ones that I’ve got along with great, but for the most part they’re either addicts or ex cons. Or both.
Yeah I hear you. To be fair the tapers are definitely better than the guys who sling board but still.
Depending on where you live different trades are more or less in demand. As an example I'm in the southern interior of BC doing electrical and we make much less here then you would in Alberta or Ontario.
My bf is a mechanic and there are jobs everywhere.
Electrician, source : me an electrician
I don't know about Ontario but in Quebec there's a shortage in almost all construction trades.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean that tradies were idiots, quite the opposite. Trades are respectable as hell. I just hate that conservatism (and the uninformed idiocy that comes with it) seems to run rampant among tradies though. Sorry you had to deal with that stuff, sounds terrible.
Edited my original comment for clarity.
I got some bad news for ya about the high majority of my co-workers on any construction site I've been to. Maybe the average has picked up in the last half-decade or so, but 'critical analysis of a source of information' only extended as far as the supplier(s) of tools/materials and meteorologists, but not the radio/ads/facebook rants.
Yeah it wasn’t till I got in the industry that I realized how many people are willing to vote against their own interests.
I do some construction work on new homes now and again. I do my work and keep to myself because I’m not into conversations where my interlocutor uses “fuckin” every third word.
Can attest, worked construction for 4 years. They had really nice discussions about how a potato losing it's dick was bad for humanity.
Every lunch area has several copies of the Sun laying around and the guys that bother to read it believe every word.
Alot of construction workers aren't union, city ones are but most companies are independent small companies, construction companies are probably some of the assets to start. At least that's what I noticed when I worked construction for 4 years
I've only worked union. 80% of them are going to vote Con, if not PPC
Mostly because Trudeau took away guns they didn’t have to begin with and because their wives find him more attractive.
The conservative propaganda machine works hard for sure, I’m always surprised at how many workers support the conservative government despite those governments doing extremely little to help the workers
This statement is dumb. Far more than 20% of construction workers are union (especially in Ontario) if they are voting to keep Cons out, a huge chunk of construction workers won't support him.
I'm a unionized tradesperson and I agree 80% of the people in my union are probably going to vote conservative, they're just SO ANGRY all the time about Justin Trudeau, and I constantly hear that he's a "pussy"
We are not nearly all like that. Making unfair and untrue generalizations like that correlates well with lack of reasoning ability, and you can get through the more difficult trades with Grade 10 or 11 math, brute force memorization instead of intuition and reason and some social skills. We are not the most educated bunch, so you will hear some idiocy from our lowest common denominator, and some crews function as echo chambers. Among those I've worked with the political distribution roughly matches the general population. The problem with people voting against their best interests also carries over roughly proportionally to the general population. Many aren't able to accurately determine their own best interest and their interest in their political parties is similar to their favorite sports team. By and large, my extremely positive metrosexual attitude, willingness to defend the weak, and liberal values made me popular on jobsites, among the left or right. I watched the "manly trades" in my area go through the process of figuring out how to be accepting of gays without feeling like they were threatening their own manhood. Trans people never came up as they are minority, not super visible in older generations, etc. It was like watching cavemen discovering fire or the wheel to me, but it was often kind of cute and there was an underlying sincerity to it for the bulk of my peers. This may be less true on small crews with small companies with less monitoring and accountability.
At any rate, you made an unfair generalization about your fear that tradesmen make unfair generalizations about others? Please try not to do this. It serves only to alienate people and if they are firmly entrenched with an adversarial view, it makes it much harder to convince with reason. Having passed the period of their life where they feel oblicated to be educating themselves, having people reason with them is one of their few opportunities to learn how to reason better. On the other hand, most of the middle of the road ones can be convinced simply by being their friend and doing better things in front of them. They may not change their vote over those issues, and many conservatives are single issue or party line voters, but if you awaken their humanity, you can certainly get most of them to treat a minority well if they don't already.
At the same time as I see progress in human rights as inevitable necessity, the degree of polarization seems to draw away from awareness that the bulk of the population is being mathematically screwed in a way they don't know how to defend against. If conservatives feel more hated outside their safe spaces and echo chambers, they will spend less time outside those spaces.
Unions oppose O'toole? Any normal human being will oppose O'toole. You don't have to be in a Union to feel this way. Every working Canadian should oppose O'toole.
While we are waiting for our "trickle down" economics that the Cons promised us back in the 80's. I hear O'toole has some more promises.
I get the point of this but I’m just worried people who don’t like the NDP or the Libs would just vote PPC.
Yeah, i dislike the conservatives but the PPC are straight up cancer. Ghouls of the worst kind. A grab bag of scum. Every vote the PPC get is a vote against the very idea of Canada itself and I hope nobody votes for them.
I live in Vernon BC and we have so many PPC supporters here. I’ve seen more PPC member signs than any other party, and yesterday we had a group of supporters waving PPC signs off the main highway and getting lots of honks. Fuck me.
Vernon. Come for the fruit. Stay for the meth.
Note that I live in Calgary and last election PPC signs were *everywhere*. I don't think anyone here broke 3%. It might be someone just plastering their signs everywhere to look more popular.
This right here. I see a lot of PPC signs, but few on private property. Most, of not all, are on traffic islands and beside sidewalks in business districts.
Funny you mention that - I noticed it just this morning. PPC signs all over the green strip between the local strip mall and the sidewalk, but none on anyone's lawn.
Idiots are always the loudest...
This is true, they were the loudest before the internet, and they still are in the age of social media.
Used to live in the states. Trump bumper stickers are far more common than bumper stickers for other presidential candidates. People who don't vote for Trump generally aren't obsessed with it to the point of wanting to advertise it as part of their core identity. Can't say the same for the other side.
Fuck that kyle douche lol
Kyle Delfing is an idiot
Not Honking=Neutral, I guess?
How do we show straight up disdain from the car?
Flip them off is how they count negative support.
"we get alot more honks then we do getting flipped off" - union leader talking about their picket lines.
I yell “fuck ppc” and that seems to work
Doesn't Vernon also have one of the lower vaccination rates in the province?
That would be Vernon and Kelowna. And mostly the 30 and under crowd.
Oh man Kelowna! When I was there around the start of the pandemic (early last summer), they were just in complete denial. COVID distancing signs vandalized, huge gatherings no masks, one unmasked guy brushed up right against me as he was passing when there was lots of space, another man telling my senior dad that he didn’t need to wear his mask. Meanwhile there were multiple active outbreaks in downtown Kelowna. They’re a different breed out there.
Cool, add Vernon to my 'to avoid' list!
I welcome the vote. Let's you know who in your life if a racist to cowardly to just own it
I'm sorta...not too mad about their existence right now because they seem to be small enough that all they're really doing is taking votes away from the PCs. That's potentially good for the left. If our votes weren't split between Libs and NDP and Greens every single election, conservatives would never hold power in this country again. So if the PPC can act as a spoiler effect on the right the same way multiple parties do on the left, I ain't gonna complain.
Although there's an argument to be made that even tolerating their existence is too dangerous --- like, I'm a white dude making this analysis that they're politically advantageous, so they don't pose as much of a threat to me as they do to many Canadians -- so this may be the wrong take, idk. Just how I see it at first brush.
Edit: Just came across [a very relevant clip](https://twitter.com/Happy_Belmore/status/1438136060811386882?s=20) on twitter that I'm just gonna post here without further comment. other than....lol.
It’s definitely politically advantageous right now, but honestly as a minority who would be one of their very first targets it’s really disturbing to walk around my town seeing what essentially boils down to swastikas on my neighbours front lawn.
Ugh. Honestly I really hoped that at least us Canadians wouldn’t have to see people like this getting so popular.
Very understandable and I agree wholeheartedly. I'd much rather have a better system than FPTP to determine elections...then we wouldn't even need to have this conversation.
Iunno man, tolerance of their beliefs ie one of their MP's wanting Trudeau to be publicly executed and having his boss tell him to remove the tweet. There was no sense of remorse just I got my hand slapped vibe.
They've only been around since 2018 and its frightening that this uncanadian party is allowed to exist in the slightest.
PPC is Trump Lite, Canada Edition.
I would say there's nothing Lite about it. They're worse than the GOP.
I agree with your assessment in principle, but hear me out: if say, 30% of Conservative voters across the country instead voted for the PPC, NDP and Libs would end up with a bunch more seats.
Right up until the CPC shifts to the right to bring the PPC voters back into the fold and ends up having their policy dictated by an extreme minority. We just saw this happen in the US with the Tea Party and then Trump taking over the Republicans.
Out of the loop. Why is the PPC ghouls?
EDIT: Okay yeah. Absolute ghouls.
They split off the conservatives because the conservatives were too moderate for them. From multiculturalism to welfare to the environment to vaccinations, theyre against everything Canada has become over the years. Its a party for the racists, idiots and gullible. The Canadian equivalent of the gun-toting, obscenity spewing, "muh freedom" yelling Republicans down south. Thats the national policy. If you look at individual candidates, you have people against most abortion and various other stuff.
I also know people who know and live near Maxime Bernier (the PPC leader). He's been referred as unhinged and a lunatic by those people.
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I agree but the small silver lining is itll definitely split the CPC vote
I’ve got bad news for you if you think the PPC is anything but the purest distillation of Canada from is rotten roots too it’s horrific current.
True. I should say its not the Canada I thought I knew.
Unfortunately this summer should be a reckoning for all Canadians about what Canada is.
Let them. The PPC are a joke and have no real power
They’re already rising faster than many anticipated.
They are a joke, yes, but a joke that can quickly become a sad truth if we aren’t careful.
Yeah, I say a polling the other day that predicts them at around 9%, compared to the Green at 3% and NDP at 16%. That's insane.
In the US, they became Trump.
Importantly, they only have 2 viable parties. Our "trump" thankfully belongs to a fringe party. It was suprising that it made the jump from "5th party" to "4th party" but I remain skeptical whether they will win a single seat.
Bernier isn’t trump, the PPC haven’t found their trump yet.
IMO, we've already been through this cycle before, and I'm not convinced this time will be any different.
In the late 80s, the Reform Party popped up from the social conservative wing of the PC party and they spent 16 years splitting the vote with the PCs until they eventually merged in 2003 to give us what we have now in the Conservative party.
They too were scary from a progressive standpoint, with a very conservative, heavily religious core. Maybe less scary than the PPC, but still scary.
They never truly threatened to govern; the closest they came was when they because the Official opposition with only 60 seats, and that came after they moved closer to the center.
Ultimately the right-side of Canadian politics realized they needed to unify closer to the center and left us where we are.
I don't see the PPC playing out any differently; remember, only about 35% of the electorate in Canada leans right, and an even smaller percentage leans as far right as the PPC.
I believe that either the PPC will fizzle out before it gains any traction, or it will split votes with the Conservatives like the Reform Party did until they end up back where they are now. There simply aren't enough right-leaning voters in Canada to sustain two major conservative parties.
They, along with Maverick party is polling higher than the NDP candidate in rural Sask. They are quickly turning itself from joke of the country to an actual threat
Yeah, and Trump started as a joke. We can't afford to bury our heads in the sand.
Mad Max ain't trump though. I'm far from panicking over the PPC. 10% of the population will always be complete garbage, let them have their special little party that will never hold any balance of power.
To be honest, if the Republican party had split into two in 2015, Trump probably wouldn't have won the presidency. What happened was Trump co-opted the Republican party, taking the Republican party before 2016 and transforming it into the fascist Republican party we have today.
A split PPC and Conservative party is more likely to stop a "Trump" like Prime Minister. The true problem will arise if the PPC rejoins the Conservatives and a "Trump" like candidate co-opts the Conservative party and becomes its leader. IMO, as long as the PPC and Conservatives remain split, I think a "Trump" like Prime Minister is unlikely.
I feel like folks don't really remember that Bernier came *this* close to winning the conservative leadership race in 2017. Maybe he's not the one that does it next time, but if the PPC gets support, someone like him may show up in the next leadership race.
Fair and valid points. Don't forget though that Bernier only lost to Scheer for the CPC leadership by less than 2%. He had something like 49% support.
A scenario where the PPC and CPC merge and these views "poison" the party is not impossible.
They don't even need to formally merge as parties; imagine a scenario where the PPC has grown enough that in a minority LPC win, the cpc and ppc form a coalition government.
> cpc and ppc form a coalition government.
That's not possible because those people simply don't exist. Those voters *already* vote CPC. Just think of it like a pie chart. You take away from one to add to the other. Canada won't suddenly gain tens of thousands of new voters, especially not for the PPC.
Our best case scenario (kind of, not really from a humanity perspective though) is that PPC is akin to the NDP as is Liberal vs CPC. Liberals are already more popular than CPC and the CPC cannot afford to lose any supports. Just imagine if the NDP didn't exist and all NDP voters voted Liberal. The Liberal would never not have a majority.
> A scenario where the PPC and CPC merge and these views "poison" the party is not impossible.
Post-1993, the collapse of the Progressive Conservative party, along with the rise of Reform and the Canadian Alliance, leading to the current Conservative Party. Not too different from what you've suggested.
> The true problem will arise if the PPC rejoins the Conservatives and a "Trump" like candidate co-opts the Conservative party and becomes its leader.
Steve Harpers playbook enters the chat.
Excellent point. Thanks.
No real power *yet*. This is exactly how it starts.
If we have learned one thing from the last five years, it is that these harmless jokes do indeed have the capacity for great harm.
They really do need to be taken seriously. IMO worst case Ontario for this election is if Bernier wins his seat, and the distribution of other seats allows him to be the passing vote for a Conservative minority government.
Yeah, but think of the big picture. Of why the PPC exists in the first place.
Bernier knows he can't make government with his bucket of pigshit, but he's not trying to. He's trying to cripple the CPC, and extort them for control. Once they need him, he can make another run at the leadership as part of a party merger, and hope to have enough support to win this time.
In the process, he empowers the crazies.
This is more or less what happened in the US, if you account for how people, especially the right, treat the defacto two party system they have going there.
Are you seriously suggestion the plan is for him to be elected party leader of the CPC?
Canadians aren't going to fall for that shit. They would destroy the party if they put him up.
You are way too optimistic here.
You underestimate the level of ignorance and hate in this country that the PPC tries to harness.
Anyone swayed to the PPC were a lost cause already.
That's the problem with extremist political movements of any kind, be it on the left or the right.
First people are made to doubt in the system, then they are made to feel there no choice, then they start supporting an extreme view, then they are made to feel they will never have power ..... if enough time goes by in this circumstance, eventually they will gain the power and recognition they want.
I dislike the PPC. I'm an NDP supporter, always have, always will.
But I also don't under estimate the PPC ... it takes millions of dollars to accomplish what they've done so far. It means wealthy backers are willing to support them for their own purposes.
In the short term for this election, splitting the right vote is good news for everyone else. In the long run we do have to worry about an increasingly polarized society, but then again, I have a hard time believing that the people who would vote PPC would listen to what unions have to say.
You mean... finally split the conservative vote a bit, much like the NDP have done for years to the liberals, which is ultimately what allowed the conservatives to win in a lot of elections over the years?
Maybe it won't be so bad and they'll tear themselves apart while others show their true colours.
Going from voting one party that generally gets the hate votes to the party actively encouraging hate on the campaign trail seems pretty likely. Those people certainly won't vote NDP, even though it would benefit them heavily to do so unless they are very wealthy.
Before I retired, the Harper regime worked with the Crown Corp I was with and we lost our post retirement benefits. If I live another 30 years it’ll be 100k out of my pocket. Never will we vote CONS. Anyone who thinks they won’t screw with your pension is in for a rude awakening.
Well the CONservatives aren't exactly the party of the working man so this should really come as no surprise...
But every Conservative is 100% certain that a Conservative government makes more jobs, lowers working class taxes, and increases benefits for the working man, even though none of that has ever been true. My Conservative coworker said he can't wait for another Conservative government so they'll actually make some jobs. When I showed him data that proved Trudeau's government was better at job creation than Harper's he refused to believe it and said it was fake government numbers. He's also a closeted gay man who wants to marry his boyfriend and lacks the self awareness to realize his favourite politician ever Stephen "vile and disgusting" Harper would gleefully remove his right to marry said boyfriend. Voting to remove your own basic human rights...to own the libs.
You must live in Vancouver. So many gay men like that around. "gay marriage is legal, I got mine, so who cares about anyone else's rights? I'm a realtor and I want to be taxed less!"
Oh man, I'm so glad someone else in Vancouver has noticed this phenomenon. Goddamn playground of the rich, veers off into mind-boggling mental gymnastics.
A realtor's need to be greedy and awful overrides everything else.
Hey, that wealth is going to start trickling down anytime now... anytime now...
Did you know there's [a livestream where you can watch the wealth trickle down in real time](https://livestream.com/uq/events/5369913)?
I've been waiting for the "trickle down" economics now since the 80s. Come on Conservatives..where is our trickle down money?
As the "do your own research" crowd, they sure do suck at doing their own research. Morons, all of them.
Love the "do your own research" crowd. Are you implying that you've done some research? Are you adept at scrutinizing information? Did you check the thing you read to see if it has any affiliation/biases political, corporate, or otherwise that might imply they're pushing a particular narrative? Did you read the source material yourself to see if the assessment was accurate or if the sources have affiliations or biases that are pushing a certain narrative? If it's scientific in nature, do you know how to identify good scientific methodology? Are you able to spot potentially conflicting factors that may skew results? Was the thing peer reviewed with reliably consistent outcomes?
......you didn't do any of that? .....you read something on Facebook that provides no sources but you strongly agree with it because there's "too many coincidences"?
Get the man a research grant, he's killin it.
This is literally 99% of them. The other 1% is the bullshitters who are knowingly spreading this information in the first place.
The absolutely dumbest fucks.
"Do your own research", much like almost everything that comes out of their mouths, does not reflect their beliefs. They'll use anything to "win" an argument. They didn't do their own research, and they're only telling you that because they think it's a "gotcha" moment that'll shut you up. You can tell because when you SHOW them that you did your own research and that reality supports your claims, instead of saying "oh really? Dang, let me take a look. Huh, I might be wrong." they tell you that your sources are garbage and wrong and full of liars.
Narcissists, the lot of them
They should get the fuck off Reddit and get back to their PhD studies in Cellular Biology at Facebook U. Otherwise known as FU.
"Do your own research" = "Fall into Facebook/Youtube conspiracy cult videos like I did"
>When I showed him data that proved Trudeau's government was better at job creation than Harper's he refused to believe it and said it was fake government numbers.
Ah, Conservatives. When reality doesn't match up to their delusions, they reject reality and come up with conspiracies to explain the discrepancy.
Why would a guy with a job be concerned about making more jobs? Does he need more than one?
Do you have a link to those numbers? I would like to pass them on to my ignorant brother in law.
In SK the conservative government has actually been able to create a decent number of jobs, through new potash mines and such. However, none of the owners are even Canadian companies, and almost none of the employees are from SK (many aren't from Canada at all) so only a tiny portion of the money is actually staying in our economy here...
Is your friend Jason Kenney?
I have a friend in a carpenters union that in a previous election (I forget which) in no uncertain terms to vote liberal.
So I guess the anyone but the conservatives approach is less authoritarian by comparison, but it's not like they can force someone to vote one way or another anyway.
Since we're on the subject; I'll insert my usual "Fuck O'Toole" here and be on my way.
Well, unions haven't historically loved the CPC lmao this doesn't surprise me
i feel sorry for yall getting honey dicked by O'tool.
O’Toole is a fucking tool🖕🤡!!
He’s going to Tax the working class and Take away the things that benefit us like affordable child care. I know the tricks and I’m not falling for them. Secure the future, yes, for wealthy people.
I need to get an ABC election sign made for my lawn.
ABC or P.
"Oh sounds good, Bernier sounds like a good option!"
They are gaining more traction than the green party, it's worth worrying about them
Trump was a joke that no one thought would get power.... and he managed to fuck up one of the most powerful countries in the world, for 4 fucking years. We can't ignore their existence and we need to push people away from them too
The only way to do that is to use your vote to improve education. I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve heard someone try to stir up panic about the PPC and not actually propose a solution, therefore just adding to their publicity. We can shit on the PPC without ‘ignoring’ the threat of misinformation.
The solution is not using vague phrases that may lead people to give them their vote and to talk about how problematic their stances are, and how anticanadian their stances are
The PPC is nowhere near the threat up here as Trump was down there. We don't have a two party system. PPC stealing CPC votes helps keep them both out of power. They're fighting over ~40% of the electorate, and the majority of CPC voters aren't going to abandon their party for them.
Best thing Danny Williams ever did for this country: [ABC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anything_But_Conservative)
Better figure it out which one to vote for and vote strategically otherwise the votes will be split and cons have a good chance if that happens.
Don't vote conservative, don't vote Liberal. Vote NDP. This is the way.
This proud union member also cares about the environment, so I’m gonna stick with Liberal for this go-round.
Check out Alberta’s UCP MLAs not 1 has ever worked in the union sector, the majority worked private sector and some public sector. Anything the conservatives have to say on unions is not based on experience or inside knowledge. Probably from their magic 8 ball…
The CPC candidate in my riding specifically describes her extensive work as a member for the local CUPE chapter.
While it's not impossible for a union member to have Conservative leanings, it's certainly evoking some cognitive dissonance.
That should be the message to the middle class
Weird, most cpc voters oppose unions
ABC is synonymous with most federal Canadian elections lol.
I work in healthcare and love our union.
anything but Conservative **and PPC**
Yeah cause the liberals are your friends lol. Dumb.
Anyone But Conservative is how Trudeau won in 2015💁
I think that’s the point, bud. It’s literally in the name of the strategy.
I am okay with him getting another term if it means the right wing parties lose
I'll deal with the Liberals winning again but I'm full-on NDP.
Exactly, I didn't VOTE for the Liberals (also NDP supporter) but if JT wins again its not the end of the world.
I did vote for the Liberals in the last election as I didn't think the NDP were a strong candidate and I was very concerned with how much support the Conservatives had, plus I thought the liberal riding person was very competent, but this was all due to where I'm living. I voted NDP in the Provincial election.
Jagmeet Singh is very confident this time around and has a great platform. He hasn't sold out the way Trudeau has; he promised us electoral reform!
If they win another minority government, then that's a partial win for the NDP as well.
(I voted NDP fully expecting that the Cons will win my riding btw).
Same. I hate so much that my riding is neck and neck for L/C.
Less worse option again!!!! Woo!
Canadian politics sucks
Or just vote NDP. You can't say that Canadian politics suck when you are approaching it from the point of view of American politics.
>Or just vote NDP. You can't say that Canadian politics suck when you are approaching it from the point of view of American politics.
Okay so I and other vote NDP it doesn't move the needle enough for NDP removes seats from liberals and gives more seats to the Conservatives. How have I improved my country going forward with conservatives now in charge?
NDP are only written off because that's the narrative being pushed and people fall in line quite easily "to keep the Cons out!". If those sTraTeGiC VoTeRs just voted their conscience, the story would be different.
> NDP are only written off
The whole point of ABC is to vote for the NDP if the NDP are leading in your riding, or vote Liberal if the Liberals are leading in your riding.
ABC means you vote for whichever party has the best chance of beating Conservatives in your riding. ABC has nothing to do with writing the NDP off - it's just that there tends to be more ridings where Liberals are ahead.
Having said that, if the NDP is leading in your riding and has the best chance to win and you vote Liberal anyways, you are also doing the Conservatives a favor.
It seems to me that people only want to engage this topic with the scenario where the NDP wins outright. What if the amount of people willing to move from liberal to NDP is just never enough voters for the NDP to win?
I live in a disgustingly blue riding so I vote ndp anyways, but “everybody that voted liberal would vote ndp if they knew better” isn’t exactly reasonable.
In 2019? Sure. In 2015? There was a lot more to Trudeau’s victory than just “anyone but conservatives”
That's for sure!
What with Harper's desperate shenanigans to stay in power."barbaric cultural practices" etc lol