172 Windsor, Ont., hospital staff suspended without pay for not getting COVID-19 shots | CBC News
By - LeutDan
Working at a hospital and not trusting medical science is like working at NASA and being a flat earther.
Keep in mind that "hospital staff" includes administration, food services, cleaning, maintenance, etc. Not all hospital staff are medical staff, and there's no reason to think that a maintenance person in a hospital would be any more medically literate than one working anywhere else.
Edit: I should've read the article, it says how many are clinical staff...84 is a lot
That's a good point. Only 84 of the suspended workers at Windsor Regional Hospital were clinical staff.
84 more than it should be.
You'll get no argument here. If I need to go to the hospital for any reason, I'll feel much safer with them gone.
I'd still have questions about a flat earther janitor at NASA though!
what if they want to prove the world flat by orbiting the earth, ever think of that??????
Hilariously some flat earthers were raising money to launch a satellite to prove the earth is flat...except a satellite only works when the planet is fricken round.
~~orbiting~~ floating above
ELI5, serious question: If the earth is flat, what's on the other side?
My brain man, it can't take much more. Have mercy
It's not so straight forward. One of my good friends is on leave right now as they don't consider him to be fully vaccinated. He already has taken the vaccine while in Russian, and doesn't really want to take additional vaccines.
That's a different story tbh. I understand where your friend is coming from.
I'm mostly talking about nurses that are straight up refusing the shots entirely due to memes and BS they read.
Yea, I agree. I'm just point out that not all of the people on leave are nut cases haha.
Definitely, I understand there can be a few outliers here and there, your friend is one of them.
Just get the shot, its literally a non-issue.
It ends when covid stops being dangerous.
I guess that’s the odd situation where the Sputnik vaccine isn’t cleared in Canada so they have more hoops to jump through in terms of proving vaccination.
I guess worst case they’ll have to get approved ones here, which would suck but I don’t think would be the end of the world.
I don't get this fear. Why not just go ahead and get an approved shot and save the trouble?
If anything, this would more likely boost the immune response and thus, offer more protection. I could quite possibly be similar to getting a booster.
Side benefit: No future hassle about having only been given a (currently) unapproved vaccine in Canada.
I can’t go and take a vaccine approved in Botswana for rubella and try and make it work here in Canada because it’s not Canadian approved
Why would that vax be any different?
Because the WHO has approved the sputnik vaccine and information about trials of its effectiveness put it on par with other vaccines approved in Canada.
I also heard about Russian Canadians who were in Russia when the pandemic started and got the first vaccine they could, which was sputnik. So they have done the right thing.
Edit - I mis read the article, looks like it has not been approved. So I take back what I said about it being approved and the people who have taken it might be stuck and have to get a Canadian approved vaccine.
He shouldn't have to. Canada rejected a lot of viral vector vaccines that had better results than mRNA.
I can't absolutely prove it, but it's not crazy to think the big drug companies moved in to secure "free" third step clinical trials, and block other products out if they can't pay as much or more to enter the market.
Maybe they DO trust medical science, but NOT paid for "studies" that drop data or re-defines to suit an outcome.
I know doctors that think this shot is garbage. Paid for marketing enforce by stupid politicians on corporate dole. But they won't speak out due to fear of loosing their license.
Just to get dumb assumptions about me out of the way:
The world is round as far as anyone has proven.
I am not Liberal, nor conservative. The opposite side always sees me as the other.
I am not anti-vaxx my kids have all their proven shots, so do I
I am not anti-mask. I've been wearing them since before this.
I have a diploma to prove I'm educated.
Although I am not medically qualified I do work getting people connected with RN, NP, and doctors as needed.
I do look at the data. The same data on the official websites. I can crunch the numbers myself, and have lost all faith in the talking heads on TV as they misrepresent them.
I do not get my information from tin foil hat people although sometimes they do request data from me
>I know doctors that think this shot is garbage. Paid for marketing enforce by stupid politicians on corporate dole. But they won't speak out due to fear of loosing their license.
You can't just randomly drop stuff that you don't prove to back your own statements. This is how we have so much misinformation. I also know astronauts who think the Earth is flat and physicians who practice voodoo black magic - so that maens Earth is flat and voodoo exists? How can you prove me wrong?
Also, your post made very little sense overall.
Why would you want to catch a potentially deadly disease to develop immunity when you can just take a shot that is much safer?
false analogy and strawman argument at the same time, nicely done!
My brother in-law is a health and safety co-ordinator at a hospital and is also anti vaccination....
Yeah but it's not exactly necessary to believe the earth is a sphere when working 99% of jobs at NASA, and it's certainly not a requirement.
"WRH confirmed in a news release that 96 per cent of its employees are fully vaccinated, but as of Wednesday, 140 employees had not complied, with 84 of them considered clinical staff."
I'd love to see the full breakdown.
I can confirm that seven are doctors. Can't speak of the others.
How are you confirming this? Especially considering most doctors don't work for hospitals.
>Right now, about 99 per cent of the hospital’s professional staff — including doctors, midwives and dentists — have received the vaccine. That leaves just seven individuals, only two of whom work full time, that have’t yet received it.
So it's not 7 doctors, it's 7 credentialed staff.
Doctors aren't considered staff at WRH and they aren't counted in those tallies.
>I'd love to see the full breakdown.
age, race, religion, gender, education? so many spicy details!
I more meant their specific jobs lol, none of that matters to me. Education maybe.
Oh that would be interesting too! haha
Gross... creepy much?
>You can basically get breakdowns for the general public when they do polling on vaccine hesitancy. So not sure why it would be interesting
It is interesting because we have breakdowns from the general population but this would give us some good data on a small sample of people. What is wrong with data and science?
Why would it be gross to find out that (lets look at age) young healthy people are more likely to not want to get vaccinated compared to old unhealthy people?
Would be interesting to track BMI&vax as well.
In other news ... hospitals in Windsor are hiring!
experience preferred but not essential
If you experienced working at Windsor hospitals, you would not be applying.
Because we live in an individualized society with no identity, and nobody really cares about their neighbours that they pay taxes to keep well and educate properly.
Nurse here. Honestly glad to see this. Patient safety has to come first. And there's no room in healthcare for people who won't listen to science and protect the vulnerable.
Would there be a point where so many staff personnel are suspended that the system suffers?
Good thing they're a vocal minority.
The rest of the world is moving on, with or without them.
Thankfully in Ontario it's a small percentage. And covid outbreaks in hospitals were paralyzing our whole healthcare system. That's a much bigger concern.
Completely agree. You are putting yourself and your patients at risk. Something like retail is maybe more "flexible" because those people aren't receiving health care. But health care itself is not flexible and shouldn't tolerate people who won't take those issues and concerns seriously
Good. Looking forward to seeing similar stories from other hospitals.
These people made a choice and it's time for a consequence of that choice
Edit: Also best part
> Suspended workers have until early October to get 1st first shots or face termination
Yeaa but it fucks with victims patients and other medical people in need. That's a lot of important workers lol.
While I agree I'm hopeful that this makes some of these people change their mind and or we can fill some of these spots with willing candidates
IDK man. Have all rookies work a a hospital lol. I'll wait for a experience person lol. I remember when I had a rookie nurse. Fucked up my bloodwork 2x lmaoo the supervisors gave her a lashing
Windsor Regional Hospital employs about 4,000 people. With 84 clinical staff suspended, they'll have plenty of nurses who aren't rookies.
Well that's a good thing. But we are only assuming
The hospitals generally run at 105% capacity or greater. They've been underfunded and over capacity for years. In this context, is laying off 2% of the clinical staff really going to be beneficial? Considering 99% of the most vulnerable in Ontario are vaccinated, and 96% of the hospital staff are vaccinated, this really feels like a detrimental move in terms of patient care...
And honestly this is where I hope it drives compliance and these people can get back to work.
It also is staff and not specifically health care workers so the impact of rookie support staff will potentially be lower then rookie blood takers
My uncle is an Emerg doctor and they had a meeting this week unvaccinated staff will be suspended with no pay in October. I would imagine more are already doing the same.
Man made consequences aren’t consequences.
So jail isn't a consequence? Did you even actually think before pressing enter?
I thought we wanted to reform the criminal justice system?
If I wanted to change my breakfast, it doesn't mean it's not breakfast.
Do you think before pressing enter?
I guess one way to not have consequences is if you say most of the consequences are not consequences
> These people made a choice and it's time for a consequence of that choice
There are consequences to both 'choices' (as if it is a choice when your job is on the line?) People should be able to make a risk/reward decision for their own health. Your body does not belong to the state yet.
So what the 1 in 5 million adverse reaction risk which are not necessarily that bad or the increased risk of getting covid and losing your job and looking like an asshole.
Yeah I guess you're right.
And yeah it doesn't and you were given a choice no one is forcing you to do anything with your body. You just need to do just need make a risk and reward decision
> 1 in 5 million adverse reaction risk
LOL. Look how many in Israel are in hospital with 2 or even 3 jabs. You want a subscription to your own immune system that does very little. You make no sense, and you display cognitive dissonance besides.
Sucks to suck. Don't want to trust in medical science, don't work in a medical science field. It's a choice, it's just a stupid one.
Medical science would accept that people have acquired immunity that is long lasting and robust, and that people who aren't sick are not shown to drive pandemic spread - ever in the entire history of airborne disease. Nice try though.
But not all of them have caught covid so have zero immunity. Plus private workplace is not the state and have always been able to dictate who can and can't work for them.
Because they are 9x less likely to catch it.
You ask these 'gotcha' questions as if these answers aren't extremely simple and easy to find.
Yeah and why get that immunity with a safe vaccine, rather go out of your way and potentially die. Smart people.
I don't understand how people can be so confidently wrong, but stupidity is a hell of a drug.
Well here's fingers crossed that you're one of that lucky 0.05%.
In before any "but their rights!!!", the OHRC has released a [policy statement as of today regarding vaccination mandates and providing proof of vaccination.](http://www3.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-policy-statement-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-and-proof-vaccine-certificates)
(Hint: this is allowed.)
People behave as if folks that work at hospital and with children haven't had to show proof of vaccinations before.. So many jobs have required it!
Additionally, lots of people behave like people can't just be fired from jobs for any reason or no reason at all.
Unless you are being fired for protected grounds (which vaccination status is not), you are SoL. At best, you get more severance than being fired for cause but no job is secure and it baffles me that people think their jobs are.
I went back to being a spare school bus driver because of the shortage I addition to my full time job.
I had to show them I was fully vaccinated.
I had to show proof of up to date tetanus and MMRs. Also had to get tested for TB.
Even daycares require this..
People can have the right to refuse a free, safe, lifesaving vaccine - even if that's usually a dumb choice. But no one has the legal right to work a specific job.
If you won't get vaccinated, you probably don't belong on a clinical team. Go find something else. We've all sacrificed too much.
Glad it's without pay
Wait but who’s gonna deal with the ICU backlog???
People that believe in science?
Windsor already has a nurse shortage as they make waayyy more money in detroit
Yeah I get it, but just because there is a shortage doesn't mean you let unqualified people have the job.
They have do e the proper schooling and where “hero’s” for two years. Risking their lives to take care of the sick and injured during a pandemic.
Now everyone turns their backs on them? Thats the type of behaviour that is ruining Canada.
Aren’t they turning their back on Canada by not getting the shot?
A socialistic country, in a socialized healthcare setting and all that.
Their duty to Canada is to be as safe for their selves before others. Vaccines do that.
You nailed the fallacies in the twisted logic of the guy above you.
This will be a struggle at first but a net positive in the end as they have literally just excised a large portion of extreme idiots from the Hospital.
I am 100% ok with this.
So the health care system is on the verge of collapse BUT they can also suspend just short of 200 unvaccinated staff and it’s fine?
Ya, I don't get this. ~75% vaccination rate was supposed to be when herd immunity starts to kick in. Hospitals in Ontario are chronically over capacity and under staffed, and we're being made to believe it's beneficial to layoff 4% of the work force because they didn't get the Covid vaccine?
96% of hospital staff are vaccinated, 99% of the vulnerable who are likely to require hospitalization are vaccinated...none of this makes sense.
That’s because it’s never been about our health and always about control. But don’t listen to me, I’m just some “science denier”…
The amount of hatred and resentment that so many here hold towards such a small percentage of people SHOULD be a red flag. How come I can pose legitimate questions in criticism of this decision in a neutral way, but all those in favour of the layoffs seem practically giddy that people who disagree with them are being punished? Also notice how my inconvenient question went unanswered, while your comment was met with personal attacks?
We can all draw our own conclusions from this thread....
Ok, I won't.
No you're a conspiracy theorist who's lost perspective.
Ya ya ya. Keep telling yourself that once you’re on your 10th booster shot and we start having more lockdowns to help the climate crisis.
Thank you for proving my point
Sure. Just like vaccine passports were just a “conspiracy” and now here we are. Justin Trudeau literally said what we learned from this Covid Crisis we will apply to the Climate Crisis. Use your brain and see the bigger picture.
You've proven my point, you don't need to continue
That's what I was thinking.
I can't believe so many fucking morons work in healthcare. I mean, these people should not be anti-science and working in hospitals.
80.2% of Ontario adults are fully vaxxed and 85% 1 shot and both growing every day. Read the writing on the wall, folks....
Time to get ready my resume.
I work at a hospital. I personally believe that as a healthcare worker, you should get the vaccine. However, it's your choice. But if you don't get it, you seriously shouldn't be working around patients who are more susceptible to illnesses and health issues.
Good , but they still have their freedum
Potential Future Employer: So why did you leave your previous job?
Suspended? They should all be fired so they can change careers
They'll be fired in October if they don't get the shot by then.
And then we will see all the lawsuits. Some employment lawyers have already said its an easy win case against actual termination for non vaccine. Suspended or put on leave of absence is one thing but termination cannot be because of medical reasons or choices.
>cannot be because of medical reasons or choices.
The OHRC statement from today agrees with them for medical reasons, but not choices. It makes it quite clear that a choice against vaccination is not protected, and an employer is free to terminate you for it.
I doubt that hospitals will have any difficulty making the case for vaccination as a bona fide occupational requirement during a pandemic.
> A spokesperson for the hospital (Chatham-Kent) explained that 95 per cent of all physicians there are fully vaccinated.
It could be worse, but this isn't helping my anxiety about moving to Chatham tomorrow.
What the crap brought you to Chatham? Last I heard people were trying to leave
Affordable housing. I grew up there and I said I'd never move back. However, some of my friends have already moved back there to WFH. Hopefully, we can contribute to it being a better place to live!
Fair, good luck to you!
It’ll be classic when these laid off nurses become waitresses or bartenders and overhear you weirdos gossiping over this while you shovel extra large fries down your gullet while comparing vaccine passport laminate styles.
Are. You. FUCKING. KIDDING ME. I live in Windsor, and really this shouldn’t be a surprise, but I’m horrified that my county is being dredged up so much because WE ARE SO STUPID WITH OUR HEALTH